It has taken me a little while to get around to responding to something. I have been preoccupied with something else and I just found it in my to do box. think it is very much worth responding to.
A couple of weeks ago I had some cognitive control type who hangs out on this list try to use me as a prop for pushing the usual neo-liberal line. The moderator suppressed my reply and when I noticed it was missing I put it on my blog and sent out a link to that. The moderator allowed this.
Sure enough, the con-troll sent me something on my personal e-dress to try to draw me out. Of course there is nothing in the world stupider than responding directly to these types but I think it is worth showing it to the list to demonstrate the methods of these people and what needs to be done in order to have a real public discourse and discussions like these on the Fair Vote lists that are of real value.
Lately we also had some racist garbage against moslem people get past the moderator of this list, so I think the need is there to look at what makes a good list and competent moderator. For a discussion list, just like with a live face meeting, its value is largely dependent on the quality of the moderator/chairman. The reason for this is that there are always so many people out there looking to manipulate public discourse to their own agendas.
The cognitive control agents are real. This is not really anything new. Ruling elites have waged class war on the masses from time immemorial. It is most often a psychological war, usually under the cover of "opinion" or "debate".
There is not that much that really needs a debate, and there is not or ever has been or ever will be a "right to an opinion". In grown up conversations, people claiming things that are not demonstrated in a scientific way must be told to shut up. By scientific I mean supported by evidence, which is obtained through research.
The mark of the cognitive controller is that what he or she is asserting does not come from independent research, but from misinformation campaigns of various kinds. In the case I am talking about, it is an attempt to construct a false reality around our heads in which there is no option, it is the only logical thing to do, to destroy ourselves to solve a problem which does not really exist and is never even defined. This, as part of the North American elite's psych-war on its human cattle who are getting uppity and who they do not think they need anymore.
So, what is demanded of the competent moderator is first of all to understand what the point to discussion is. The second is to be aware of the methods of cognitive control. The third is to be on top of the disconstructions of reality which are being propagated at present, to recognize them and immediately shut them down.
To repeat, there is no point in engaging people who are pushing a line. Just shut them down. I have repeated below the crap I was sent a couple of weeks ago to illustrate the techniques these people will use, and the pointlessness of engaging them.
Had I been the moderator I would have spared the list your rant, but I have some time for it because in the past I have found many of your observations to be very astute.
It seems, however, that we have quite different understandings of what is likely or even possible within the next decade or two, after which I won't be paying attention.
You seem to be arguing that there is no intrinsic conflict of interest between the North American/European general population and the general population of many of the world's poorer countries. Does this mean you do not object to "free trade?"
Do you imagine everyone in the world could be raised to the North American standard of living by applying current technology and reallocating/greatly expanding investment activity, never mind how that might be accomplished?
Do you mean the wage-and-salary classes in the more prosperous countries are ready to take a voluntary step backward to speed up the process of equalizing the uneven development if there were any mechanism (other than free trade) to channel such a sacrifice? No sign of that, quite the contrary.
Or perhaps you mean some as yet undiscovered technologies will overcome all the apparent scarcities and problems of environmental overload and everybody in the world will have what they want when they want it?
You are working from a crystal ball to which I have no access.
If you need to review the original exchange, that is still at http://www.blog.citizensincome.ca/2012-05-22.html
You notice that he never really says anything. It is all emotional triggers and double twists designed to get me proving a negative. Anything said which they do not like is a "rant"; which is a meaningless word. He also does the phony "respect" thing, saying that in the past he has found some of my observations astute. This is supposed to create false guilt in me. If anyone else is reading this, it is supposed to make me look "unreasonable" when I treat him as he is.
To repeat, he never says anything that he would have to substantiate. That is because he can't. He just attributes to me what I have not said and tries to get me hooked into trying to refute them and to deny saying them. Again, nothing dumber than to respond to it at all, except to block out his email address and to try and get the moderator to remove him when, and I am sure it is when, he tries pushing his crap again.
Do I mean, do I mean, do I mean??? What I mean is, why should people listen to those who tell them the only solution to their problems is to destroy themselves? What I mean is, what is the interest of people who help to promote this kind of fraud?
Here is a historic example to illustrate to the kind of fraud and psychological war being waged on populations in developed countries right now.
Back in the 1880s the Xhosa tribe in South Africa was giving the white colonizers a hard time, defeating several attempts to conquer them. Then came several years of drought which brought hardship to the Xhosa, though the colonial government was still unable to break them.
Then various Xhosas started to be visited by mysterious figures who could perform miracles far beyond the Xhosas technology; which could however have been produced by European science of the time. The spirits told the Xhosa that they had been sent by the ghosts of their ancestors to say that the ancestors were angry that the Xhosa were not worshipping them enough and not calling on their help in crisis. They needed to have faith in their ancestors.
What the Xhosa needed to do was kill all their cattle and burn all their crops as a sacrifice to show their devotion to the ghosts of their ancestors, and they would be rewarded with new and better crops, and the drought and the white men would go away. Some of the Xhosa were sceptical about this. However, they were denounced by the spirits as further angering the ancestors and endangering the living Xhosas redemption. Eventually most Xhosa destroyed their means of livelihood and assembled on a hill to await the new goods from their ancestors.
The new magical cattle and crops never appeared and soon the Xhosa were starving. They tried to summon the spirits to explain. What they got were the agents of the colonial government telling them where to go to hand in their weapons and receive rations, before being put to work on white farms. A few Xhosa who had seen these spirits or had been among the first to kill their cattle and to denounce those who did not, got very big handouts and special privileges from the white men.
What I mean is, never respond to a cognitive control agent's misconstructions of reality. Just construct reality correctly. Of course, the problem with that is that you have to know what reality is. In these days of intense and multilayered misinformation, knowing what reality is takes a lot of work.
It can make you a target too. But the best defense against that is to try to teach people how to recognize the cognitive control agents and to deal with them effectively.
So now, lets see if I can get this past the moderator.